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>  Modern Warfare 2 To Be Remade By Valve (not Really But...)
   
 
IKHAM
  Post#1 | May 25 2010, 10:48 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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This amused me a bit. Don't get excited Modern Warfare 2 is not being made by valve smile.gif
What if Valve made Modern Warfare 2


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Dragunov
  Post#2 | May 25 2010, 12:45 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(IKHAM @ May 25 2010, 10:48 ) *

Don't get excited Modern Warfare 2 is not coming to steam smile.gif

It's already on Steam.


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IKHAM
  Post#3 | May 25 2010, 12:49 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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I stand corrected. rolleyes.gif


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JollyRoger
  Post#4 | May 25 2010, 20:08 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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Anybody could have remade Modern Warfare 2 and it would have been better than it is now. Black Ops has a lot to prove and make up for in the Call of Duty series. Even one of those developers that insists on releasing straight-to-bargin-bin extreme bull rider big rig racing mahjong haunted house mysteries by the bushel every year. Harsh criticism I know. My impression is that the MW2 devs have tried to innovate too much. That is possible you know. Rockstar, the Halo guys, and the Gears guys have be threatening to do that for years. They stop just short though and let their imitators slip on that banana peel. There is also such a thing as innovating too little like the Need For Speed people have been doing since the fourth installment with all the Porsches. I'm sorry to say that we the gamers have to take 1/3 of the blame here. The other two thirds go to the game critics and developers themselves. For our part we get bored too easy and can't appreciate improvements to existing innovations and smaller innovations. Some people just aren't happy until that sweet 2010 Mustang is now a boat made of frozen bread and can only operate online.

I think of innovation in terms of Practical vs Impractical. The best example I cite is the show Battle Bots. It was the one which pitted home made robots against each other. Grant Imahara from Mythbusters got his start there. Some of these bots used very simple yet effective designs which ensured that they would go far. Other decided to innovate too much and created fantastic robots which were more artsy and better eye candy than something that could move in and deliver a simple spike to the mobo. I can remember one guy who did nothing but build odd and fantastic bots that would always lose because a giant articulated caterpillar isn't going to beat an axe on tank treads no matter how fantastic and innovative it is. Anyways, my two cents: The moral of the story is that innovation doesn't count for crap if it loses sight of practicality. Gamers and critics often don't know any better about how to improve on an already good idea that the developers that came up with them in the first place. When they start whining like babies for the developers to drastically change something they often get something they don't like. If you don't believe me try downloading Daikatana some time. Developers should worry less about trying to reinvent gravity and more about changes that actually make sense. Of course this doesn't mean they should ignore gamers and critics. Any dev that does that needs to ride in the short bus. They should however pay attention to the ideas that make sense. Every now and again some dev gets lucky and makes a game that turns the world upside down. Not every dev can do that, so instead concentrate on making a quality game that is fun, isn't buggy, has features that make sense, isn't bogged down "innovations" that don't, and has replayability. That is about all that anyone has a right to ask from a game. Sometimes pushing the envelope means you have to pick up a mess off the floor later. When your Spidey-sense is telling you you might have crossed the line, take a step back. You can save that radical idea for a time when it's more practical. And you won't screw up the game you're working on now.
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Dragunov
  Post#5 | May 25 2010, 23:07 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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What kind of innovation are you talking about, Jolly? The only thing strikingly different about MW2 is that they released the sh*tty console version for PC.

Oh, Ikham, your link is down.


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JollyRoger
  Post#6 | May 26 2010, 03:38 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(Dragunov @ May 25 2010, 18:07 ) *

What kind of innovation are you talking about, Jolly? The only thing strikingly different about MW2 is that they released the sh*tty console version for PC.

Oh, Ikham, your link is down.


This is precisely what I am talking about. Gamer language can be toxic. When developers hear phrases like "it's not strikingly different" their collective underwear gets in a twist and they start making changes like that lame snowmobile chase mission for example. All they understand that it needs to be different. Critics do a lot criticism yet you'd be hard pressed to find an article that not only critiques games but makes suggestions about how it could be better. The most you get is comparisons to other games and what they did or did not do right. Critics are only good for pointing things out. They are worthless for making anything better by submitting original ideas. Gamers unfortunately aren't much better. Sure you'll hear some suggestions but far too often you more people submitting throw-away comments "it's not strikingly different," which are not only vague but lead any developer reading it to interpret that any change is a step in the right direction. And I don't mean to sound like I'm busting your chops, but I see those kinds of comments in abundance daily and quite frankly I'm tired of it. When I say "innovation" I mean it in the general sense. I'm not just talking about MW2. Saying this, Different does not equal better. New does not equal better. Better equals better. New + Different ideas aren't always better. New + Different + Practical {multiplied by either simple or complex} "can" but not always = Better. But you will find a higher percentage of Better this way than not. Call of Duty has survived by taking significant but practical steps. Aesthetically the menu features of MW2 try to be streamlined but it fails to capture the simplification aspect of streamlining. MW2 is needlessly complex in a way that WaW wasn't. Again I bring up the snow mobile and that you get merits for everything from headshots to not taking a dump in a prime camping spot. All in all you're right. MW2 is not strikingly different. But it pretends to be, and that is an innovation. The lamest laziest and most worthless kind of innovation that wows all the most vocal people at all the right times. And it feels like I'm passing a kidney stone every time I hear it and I want to grab those squeaky little dudes on TV and shove their heads into a swirling toilet.


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Dragunov
  Post#7 | May 26 2010, 08:13 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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Not that vehicle sessions in FPS games are unheard of. In fact, previous COD games had it.

Striking difference =/= Innovation. That striking difference in MW2 wasn't about change, quite the contrary: it was about the lack of change. They took away all the features that COD fans and non-fans on PC took as a given. They practically took away the PC version altogether and what we are left with is the sub-standard gameplay experience that console gamers have been scooping up relentlessly for years. Again, no real change for the game as a whole, they just showed a niche market the middle finger.

This post has been edited by Dragunov: May 26 2010, 08:15


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JollyRoger
  Post#8 | May 26 2010, 15:45 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(Dragunov @ May 26 2010, 03:13 ) *

Not that vehicle sessions in FPS games are unheard of. In fact, previous COD games had it.

Striking difference =/= Innovation. That striking difference in MW2 wasn't about change, quite the contrary: it was about the lack of change. They took away all the features that COD fans and non-fans on PC took as a given. They practically took away the PC version altogether and what we are left with is the sub-standard gameplay experience that console gamers have been scooping up relentlessly for years. Again, no real change for the game as a whole, they just showed a niche market the middle finger.


I am well aware of this. But the form in which it came was lame even for a FPS vehicle session. It was just a chase down a mountain. BFD. There was no other utilization of the snowmobile other than to run away from the bad guys. Again BFD. WaW had just the right amount of secondary gameplay. MW2 overdoes it. Like CoD4 before it MW2 wastes it's time being a multiplayer/co-op Unreal Tournament wannabe while treating the story missions like something they just happened to get around to. WaW had a decent length story campaign. MW2 did an about face and "re-innovated" all of CoD4's mistakes. I think quite honestly Infinity Ward is much better at making WWII games. No offense really. They are good at what they do when it's not modern. We'll see what happens with Black Ops and something as recent as Vietnam. Contemporary settings seem to confuse them for some reason. I would have at least taken a shot at the Korean War before taking on Vietnam. I really hope they don't sacrifice story missions for multiplayer love feasts.


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Dragunov
  Post#9 | May 26 2010, 17:22 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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Really, so the biggest problem with MW2 for you is the snowmobile? Then i don't understand why you're even complaining. Really, that's nitpicking at best. I know you're not concerned with the multiplayer aspect, but even as far as singleplayer goes, that vehicle section doesn't hurt the game.

As for Black Ops, it's another game made by Treyarch so i'm not even going to give it a chance.

Infinity Ward screwed the pooch, they're dead, and Call of Duty is dead altogether if it's left with Activision and the other 2-3 developer teams they hired so they can make releases more frequent.

I guess i'll just pick up a copy of the new Battlefield game.

EDIT: I just can't digest the fact that you're bashing Infinity Ward for focusing on multiplayer. IW's COD games have always been multiplayer oriented, and they have always been on top of their game. To suggest that they should switch their focus to singleplayer is just silly. And buying an IW-made COD game for the singleplayer is just as silly as buying a BMW just to listen to the radio in it.

This post has been edited by Dragunov: May 26 2010, 17:43


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JollyRoger
  Post#10 | May 26 2010, 19:13 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(Dragunov @ May 26 2010, 12:22 ) *

that's nitpicking at best.

EDIT: I just can't digest the fact that you're bashing Infinity Ward for focusing on multiplayer. IW's COD games have always been multiplayer oriented, and they have always been on top of their game. To suggest that they should switch their focus to singleplayer is just silly. And buying an IW-made COD game for the singleplayer is just as silly as buying a BMW just to listen to the radio in it.


If I am to be painted as a nitpicker than so be it.

Look at it from my perspective. I am a former Evercrack addict so I don't play online at all. Single player stand alone games appeal to me. I will play games over a local LAN or split screen. But I won't buy a game primarily for it's online features. I am in the minority nowadays. I get that. For gamers like me who pick up a title only to find a seriously gimped story campaign playing second fiddle to a online multiplayer mode is kind of like getting the middle finger pointed at us. We expect some better attention given to the single player campaign. CoD4 was hampered by a very short story mission campaign. It was roughly 2/3 too short. MW2 is a little better in this respect but greater importance is still put on online multiplayer. WaW achieved a much better balance of Single Player, Co-op, Local Multiplayer and Online Multiplayer. WaW should have been the model Infinity Ward should have been working from instead of discarding it and starting from where CoD4 left off. Honestly I can't tell you what IW could have done differently with CoD4. Even though technically CoD4 has more story missions than WaW, the story campaign for WaW felt far longer. I don't know if it had anything to do with the size of the maps, difficulty of the maps, mission complexity and/or Bot AI but WaW pulled off a richer single player mode than CoD4 did.

I hope this better explains my position.


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Dragunov
  Post#11 | May 26 2010, 23:59 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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I understand your position, and it's a fact that WaW had longer singleplayer (although i'm not sure if it's in direct proportion with quality).

But you have to consider that Infinity Ward had to put a LOT of work into COD4 to make it what it is, Treyarch on the other hand received COD4 as a basis to build WaW off of it so they didn't really have much to do other than reskin the guns, build the SP campaign and scissor some maps together for the multiplayer side of things. Thus they had plenty of time to work on singleplayer.

QUOTE
WaW should have been the model Infinity Ward should have been working from instead of discarding it and starting from where CoD4 left off.


Remember when i said you shouldn't even be complaining? Well this is why. You're just looking at a specific aspect of the whole deal, not the big picture and you're judging the games by that instead of their overall value. Treyarch is a company which lives solely off of spin-offs. They make god-awful movie games like spiderman and James Bond, and Activision hired them as a filler so that they can release COD anually. Their COD games are not bad by any means, but they simply don't deliver the same quality. They don't innovate either, IW used to move the franchise forward while Treyarch was busy building campaigns onto pre-made engines handed down to them and putting vehicles into multiplayer completely unbalancing everything.

I absoloutely adore singleplayer, however, i think you as a singleplayer-only guy should stay out of criticising games in which multiplayer plays an important role. You're expecting every game on the market to cater to you, neglecting most of the rest of their customer base and i think you'll agree that this is simply unreasonable and won't happen.

There are plenty of singleplayer-oriented games still being released, but sadly the FPS genre is the wrong place to look for those right now.


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JollyRoger
  Post#12 | May 27 2010, 06:01 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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Oh I think I'm keeping a fair distance away. My bark is in no relation to the size of my bite. But it tends to carry on the wind. You can feel secure that you're not having an auditory hallucination. Anyways it's not so much the dominance of multiplayer features in FPS games that spoils the cream in my morning coffee. It's the attitudes many gamers have about the sheer brilliance of it. It can be fun to take your friends, or total strangers, on online. That is the entire appeal of online games. Community. This hasn't escaped me. But whenever I hear about a game that is in development or set for release I hate standing next to the guys in Gamestop who inevitably vomits "What is the Online Content" as their first question. It's bad enough that our Gamestop is located to a buffalo wing restaurant and my stomach is always growling anyway (OMG I so love buffalo wings). So I'm hungry and edgy to begin with and I would like just once for one of these guys to submit-to-ponder about game engines, frame rates, modeling, playability or even simply how tough the shrink wrap will be to open.

I know that I'm 'that' guy. It does not need to be spelled out to me. Before online play my peeve was the lead in question "Does it have good graphics?" My eyes rolled so much my vision went bad. When you hear me nitpick about a friggin' snowmobile try to picture the recovering alcoholic walking by a group of young people boasting about their last kegger where they got blitzed out of their skulls.

I'm not saying that everyone who drinks will become an alcoholic. Nor am I saying that online gaming is bad. I'm just trying to let you know where I'm coming from. I know that nobody is going to value the same things I do, like I do. Recovering alcoholics can often be a little unlikeable. Particularly when it comes to things that bother them. As can people that have divorced themselves from online gaming because they have admitted to themselves and others that they can't control their online gaming. It really sucks when a game series we like steers more toward online play. It sucks even more when an entire genre we liked becomes dependent on online play. For recovering alcoholics it would be like our favorite Cola abandoning sugar in favor of booze one day. And the next day every soda on the shelf does the same. Okay then, we'll switch to sports drinks. We'll miss the fizzy carbonation of course, but since we don't have a choice to drink soda with or without booze we're short on options. And since the formula has been changed to make the booze additive taste better we're not sure we even want to drink the soda alone anymore. Do you see where I'm going with this?

You're more or less right about the situation. I am less than objective or reasonable about this. I didn't get this way by magic though.


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Dragunov
  Post#13 | May 27 2010, 09:31 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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