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Crossfire
  Post#1 | Dec 9 2004, 16:06 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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Dimebag Darrell, guitarist for Damageplan and Pantera, was killed during a shooting spree at a Columbus, Ohio, nightclub Wednesday night. He was 38

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1494653/1...amageplan.jhtml

I can't believe his has happened. He was an insane guitarist and anamazing person.

Once more, it angers me, that even with all these terroist attacks and gun crimes, the arse holes in the US government do f*** all to stop this kinda of thing happening. There wern't even any metal detectors in the place. If that policeman hadent been there when he was, go knows how many more people would be dead.


RIP Dimebag

This post has been edited by Crossfire: Dec 9 2004, 16:14
 
IKHAM
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didnt know him, but it's always sad when somebody dies when they shouldnt.


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Instead of making obtaining guns harder and watching out for people without a good education, who are antisocial that think that shooting is the solution, they should go this way. Good job America.

This post has been edited by DeRCT13: Dec 9 2004, 16:59


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ringwraith
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That sucks, I saw those guys play in Toronto a few years ago and he was amazing. I'm sad to say that the guns are creeping into Canada too. I think I'll write another hatemail to the polititians in my country about the border. I've got nothing against Americans in general. I think this kind of thing pisses most sane people off.


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Dimebag Douchebag.

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QUOTE(ringwraith @ Dec 9 2004, 22:03 )
That sucks, I saw those guys play in Toronto a few years ago and he was amazing. I'm sad to say that the guns are creeping into Canada too. I think I'll write another hatemail to the polititians in my country about the border. I've got nothing against Americans in general. I think this kind of thing pisses most sane people off.
*



i have watched that guy's movie about Guns. it was about children being shot in schools in America.

Well he said that Canada has more guns than the US. and they still leave every door of the house open. theyre not afraid of their neighbours.

Canada (IMHO) is the bets country in the world. (not to mention weve got high friends whistling.gif )

__________
And i completely agree with Ikham

rip.gif may the earth be as fluff to you Dimebag...

@Derct: that was horrible in this situation shocking.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Mister V: Dec 9 2004, 18:55


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QUOTE(ringwraith @ Dec 9 2004, 12:03 )
That sucks, I saw those guys play in Toronto a few years ago and he was amazing.  I'm sad to say that the guns are creeping into Canada too.  I think I'll write another hatemail to the polititians in my country about the border.  I've got nothing against Americans in general.  I think this kind of thing pisses most sane people off.
*


Guns really aren't the problem. It starts with the fear culture America seems to have right now. The values of our media are completely out of sorts. The same thing is reflected in our popular culture.

I could go on for volumes, and some of you know that too, about why these things happen here but I'd lose most of you before I made my first point.

I will say that guns don't think or have personalities. People do. Instead of banning guns there must be a concerted effort to change the values of Americans from fear driven, revenge driven, anger driven to motivations based on respect. Problems can't be legislated away. They will just find new outlets. If someone has hate and rage in their hearts they will find a way to hurt or kill someone else. Making guns less available will only make them turn to other ways of going about it. If somebody wants to kill they will kill. And guns aren't the worst weapon out there.

The solution to damn near every problem starts with people. Why? Because that's where nearly every problem starts.

If somone professes to be interested in social issues they may try to get legislation passed that directly affects what people can do or say. This does not work. Unfortunatly it's an all too common mistake. Instead of looking at the face of the problem they should investigate what else is contributing to a certain attitude, value or beleif. Change those and you've sloved your problem.

Thing is, it is a hard thing to do. People would much rather depend on simple quick fix-it solutions. Porpblem is, they NEVER work. JFK, in his speech to sell the moon landing, said they should put a man on the moon, not because it is easy, but becasue it is hard. Only truly great things can be accomplished through hard work.

Unfortuantly no country can afford to disarm it's populace. NONE. Least of all the dominant nation in the first world. And no truly democratic one at that. And since America is not a democracy, and I don't care ho many time you've heard it and who you've heard it from, it's a Constitutional Republic which means it's citizens have a right to protect themselves. In a democracy the whole of the people are soverign. In a Republic the individual is soverign. Meaning if the US were a sheep and two wolves the wolves could not vote to eat the sheep. In a democracy they could.

The politicians love to call America a democracy because it's easy to sell, promote, push, and instill their policies if only the majority of Americans "appear" to be on board. When you hear a politician say democracy in a speech he or she is more than likley trying to sell you policy that benifits them personnaly first and will likley screw you later. BEWARE.

If you want to bring terrorism into this here a very simple perspective for you. The Iraq war was and is a LIBERAL war. Not a conservitive one. The spreading of "democracy" is a liberal endeavor. Keeping that in mind look at the push for gun laws in America. That is also a liberal endeavor. Which plainly indicates the liberal nature of the Bush administration which inacts legislation such as the Patriot Act et al.

Disarming the American people is a mistake becasue it is one more vulnerability that can be exploited by those trying to destroy it. Other countries used to be afraid of America's "second" army which was it's very people.

I think I have covered many bases here and raised many new questions which I'll be more than happy to answer.


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Big Brother
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DyingAlive
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QUOTE(Crossfire @ Dec 9 2004, 11:06 )
the arse holes in the US government do f*** all to stop this kinda of thing happening. There wern't even any metal detectors in the place.
*


Thats a bunch of bs
there arent metal detectors at NIGHT CLUBS its a night club not an airport or stadium..

It is sad expecially since he killed 2 fans in the audiance

Guns are everywhere people dont blame the goverment...


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ozzy
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QUOTE(Crossfire @ Dec 9 2004, 11:06 )


Once more, it angers me, that even with all these terroist attacks and gun crimes, the arse holes in the US government do f*** all to stop this kinda of thing happening. There wern't even any metal detectors in the place. I
*


Well the government doesn't make it manditory to put metal detectors in nightblubs so people can still take guns into 50 cent concerts and do the word a favor and try to kill him.


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Crossfire
  Post#11 | Dec 9 2004, 22:36 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(DyingAlive @ Dec 9 2004, 21:07 )
Thats a bunch of bs
there arent metal detectors at NIGHT CLUBS its a night club not an airport or stadium..

It is sad expecially since he killed 2 fans in the audiance

Guns are everywhere people dont blame the goverment...
*



Yer, and when ever I got to a club or a music event here in the UK, EVERYONE is searched, bags and pockets and put through a metal detector.
 
ringwraith
  Post#12 | Dec 9 2004, 22:58 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(JollyRoger @ Dec 9 2004, 15:10 )
Guns really aren't the problem. It starts with the fear culture America seems to have right now. The values of our media are completely out of sorts. The same thing is reflected in our popular culture.

I could go on for volumes, and some of you know that too, about why these things happen here but I'd lose most of you before I made my first point.

I will say that guns don't think or have personalities. People do. Instead of banning guns there must be a concerted effort to change the values of Americans from fear driven, revenge driven, anger driven to motivations based on respect. Problems can't be legislated away. They will just find new outlets. If someone has hate and rage in their hearts they will find a way to hurt or kill someone else. Making guns less available will only make them turn to other ways of going about it. If somebody wants to kill they will kill. And guns aren't the worst weapon out there.

The solution to damn near every problem starts with people. Why? Because that's where nearly every problem starts. 

If somone professes to be interested in social issues they may try to get legislation passed that directly affects what people can do or say. This does not work. Unfortunatly it's an all too common mistake. Instead of looking at the face of the problem they should investigate what else is contributing to a certain attitude, value or beleif. Change those and you've sloved your problem.

Thing is, it is a hard thing to do. People would much rather depend on simple quick fix-it solutions. Porpblem is, they NEVER work. JFK, in his speech to sell the moon landing, said they should put a man on the moon, not because it is easy, but becasue it is hard. Only truly great things can be accomplished through hard work.

Unfortuantly no country can afford to disarm it's populace. NONE. Least of all the dominant nation in the first world. And no truly democratic one at that. And since America is not a democracy, and I don't care ho many time you've heard it and who you've heard it from, it's a Constitutional Republic which means it's citizens have a right to protect themselves. In a democracy the whole of the people are soverign. In a Republic the individual is soverign. Meaning if the US were a sheep and two wolves the wolves could not vote to eat the sheep. In a democracy they could.

The politicians love to call America a democracy because it's easy to sell, promote, push, and instill their policies if only the majority of Americans "appear" to be on board. When you hear a politician say democracy in a speech he or she is more than likley trying to sell you policy that benifits them personnaly first and will likley screw you later. BEWARE.

If you want to bring terrorism into this here a very simple perspective for you. The Iraq war was and is a LIBERAL war. Not a conservitive one. The spreading of "democracy" is a liberal endeavor. Keeping that in mind look at the push for gun laws in America. That is also a liberal endeavor. Which plainly indicates the liberal nature of the Bush administration which inacts legislation such as the Patriot Act et al.

Disarming the American people is a mistake becasue it is one more vulnerability that can be exploited by those trying to destroy it. Other countries used to be afraid of America's "second" army which was it's very people.

I think I have covered many bases here and raised many new questions which I'll be more than happy to answer.
*



You're right in saying that people, not guns are responsible for the harm that they do, and that fear culture, media and I'll add propaganda are among many sources of violent intentions.

Maybe legislating guns away is a quick fix solution, but I'd certainly like to see less of them on the street. Just the other day a 14 year old girl on a public bus in Toronto was shot in the head by a bullet intended for someone else. Thankfully she still lives, but probably won't be seeing out of her wounded eye, ever. Clearly that act of violence was motivated by a person with something going on in their head that was not right.

That gun was most certainly obtained from some illicit source and my point was only that most of them come from the States. I don't pretend to understand the way American politics work, but in Canada if enough people write to our politians or make enough noise, they have to do something about it. Of course it's not a perfect system and quite often the spectre of corporate money interests and other pressures, impact what actually gets done about it.

I'll agree that no country can totally disarm, but the US and Canada view guns in fundamentally different ways.
National defense of one's nation is certainly a must but is unique to every country's situation. I don't know anyone who doesn't lock their door, and although we may be a target of terrorism in the future, the fear of it certainly isn't prevalent.



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  Post#13 | Dec 10 2004, 01:41 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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QUOTE(ringwraith @ Dec 9 2004, 16:58 )
You're right in saying that people, not guns are responsible for the harm that they do, and that fear culture, media and I'll add propaganda are among many sources of violent intentions.

Maybe legislating guns away is a quick fix solution, but I'd certainly like to see less of them on the street. Just the other day a 14 year old girl on a public bus in Toronto was shot in the head by a bullet intended for someone else.  Thankfully she still lives, but probably won't be seeing out of her wounded eye, ever.  Clearly that act of violence was motivated by a person with something going on in their head that was not right.

That gun was most certainly obtained from some illicit source and my point was only that most of them come from the States.  I don't pretend to understand the way American politics work, but in Canada if enough people write to our politians or make enough noise, they have to do something about it.  Of course it's not a perfect system and quite often the spectre of corporate money interests and other pressures, impact what actually gets done about it.

I'll agree that no country can totally disarm, but the US and Canada view guns in fundamentally different ways. 
National defense of one's nation is certainly a must but is unique to every country's situation.  I don't know anyone who doesn't lock their door, and although we may be a target of terrorism in the future, the fear of it certainly isn't prevalent.
*



Legit gun owners take it in the ass all the time for what illegitimate gun "possesors" do. The borders of my country are an absolute freaking joke. If Bush was really, and such a prospect really amuses me and horrifies me at hte same time, he would shut the freaking borders so illegally smuggled guns were more scare.

Criminals don't care about or give a second thought about observing gun laws. It's all tooth fairy talk to them. Pass all the gun legislation you want. It won't make a dent. The only people won't have the guns are those who would have bought them legitimatly and obeyed the law. This is "classroom punishment" legislation. Blanket punishment for the entire class for the actions of an individual in other words. Instead of passing legislation that makes some sense they bend to the psychotic anti-gun groups and pass "tough new legislation" that is really feelgood quick fix-it plans that never really accomplish anything. It sure beats actually putting some real thinking into it I suppose.

And that's all fine and dandy but meanwhile you can't defend yourself in your own home. Oh not because you don't have a gun. But because the cops will arrest you for being a criminal and the actual criminal can sue YOU for getting a cap in the ass for being in your home. Cops hate you being able to defend yourself will try to arrest YOU. I hear this kind of **** all the time and it pisses me off.

The Bush administration is by far the most liberal administration my counrty has ever had. This paternalistic government is totally warped and against the second amnedment of our constitution which gives Americans the right to protect themselves. Speaking as a true conservitive it makes me ill to see people who should be against Bush's liberal policies go right along with them out of some kind of twisted party loyalty. I am rendered speachless on a daily basis. I can' begin to tell you.

As for Dimebag, I'm really going to miss that guy. I'm a Dallas Stars fan and a Pantera fan. What he and the boys did for the team and the fans was really special. They wrote a badass theme song that will be forever loved by Dallas hockey fans.

RIP Dimebag. Texas Loves Ya!!! king.gif


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Meldince
  Post#15 | Dec 10 2004, 09:31 + Quote Post Go to the top of the page
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I'm sorry, but why do people make a fuss when a celebrity dies?
what about the children tossed in the garbage cans because their parents can't be bothered to raise the child? or the thousands of others that die? where's there forum thread HUH?

fucki'n hell, a cele is gunned down and people harp all over gun owner registration and shit. You think a criminal is gonna register his gun? f*** that, they get them illegally to begin with. You think it'll stop the children from killing themselves or friends or siblings because they think it's a toy?

god, what a fuckin' world we live in.

Merry f****** Christmas Dimebag, welcome to death in the spotlight.


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the side that thinks caring more for a celebrity than a dead baby in the alley is wrong side.

that and it's december, can't expect much less from me until feb


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QUOTE(JollyRoger @ Dec 9 2004, 23:10 )
...
I could go on for volumes, and some of you know that too, about why these things happen here but I'd lose most of you before I made my first point.
...
*


you did go on for volumes crazy.gif
i think you need another psychiatrist treatment tongue.gif j/k! great post as usual

QUOTE(IKHAM @ Dec 10 2004, 13:48 )
crazy.gif

Which side of the bed did you get out of today?
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he did get on the wrongest side. maybe fell over the footer crazy.gif


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QUOTE(Meldince @ Dec 10 2004, 09:31 )
I'm sorry, but why do people make a fuss when a celebrity dies?
what about the children tossed in the garbage cans because their parents can't be bothered to raise the child? or the thousands of others that die? where's there forum thread HUH?

fucki'n hell, a cele is gunned down and people harp all over gun owner registration and shit. You think a criminal is gonna register his gun? f*** that, they get them illegally to begin with. You think it'll stop the children from killing themselves or friends or siblings because they think it's a toy?

god, what a fuckin' world we live in.

Merry f****** Christmas Dimebag, welcome to death in the spotlight.
*



And when exactly did I state that I didnt give a shit? Anywhere in my post? no. Try getting your facts right before you start laying into people. Since I don't know of anyone that has been thrown into a garbage can I cant make a thread about them. If you know of some, go ahead.

Whats the point of over reacting? You did it here and in the christmas thread, where I put an X instead of christ. Ohhh dear, someone come and shoot me.

ANY unlaw full killing in my eyes is a tragedy. Dont start putting words in my mouth.

Besides, 2 members of the audience were killed as well, so my condolences to their familys and friends

RIP guys

This post has been edited by Crossfire: Dec 10 2004, 17:30
 
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Well now, it turns out that the crazy basterd that killed Dimebag Darrell was in fact crazy. For some reason, or not, this guy had it in his mind that the Abbott brothers were stealing his lyrics. blink.gif

Dimebag


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